Category: the Rant Board
Ok what really gets me is this.
Sighted people asking if you can get dressed-eat-etc.
Well my question to them is, well can you?
It gets on my nerves a little.
Over the years I have found a strategy that I have personally found moderately successful. At least for those capable of even elementary analysis. For those incapable, you can do nothing.
The explanation is actually very simple: Before electric light was commonplace, sighted people frequently dressed and undressed themselves in either pitch dark or near darkness. Before they could turn on a light sighted people successfully located, mounted and lit lamps and candles, again in the middle of the night sometimes when they had just awoken and had to tend to a disturbance. Most older homes like that did not have the kinds of windows people now take for granted, and even were there windows, with sufficient cloudcover these same more robust individuals seemed to manage just fine.
Sailors in the British Royal navy, and the American Navy, could get across decks and up scaffolding and out on the yard arm during an intense bout of gale or cloudcover. It is not, and has not been, unheard of for homo sapiens to manage themselves very well on less than total bright artificial light.
Why then, you might ask, the notions they held about the blind? Primarily superstition, and before the industrial revolution true pragmatism and analysis didn't really exist. Sort of like our psychobabble and preachers now: make it up, it sounds good, let's just *say* that it is.
Do a Youtube search on Tunnel Rats, a group of military ops specialists who went underground with no lights into Viet Kong tunnels during the Vietnam war. Speaking of which, many military people can field service, lock, and load their weapon in complete darkness, can kill hand to hand in the dark and the list goes on.
What they don't tell you about the Oregon Trail is that when the men built the fort in Astoria, most times they had to start their fires inside out of the rain. This was commonplace then, and they used a piece of flint on a piecce of steel, aligned over a pile of tinder. There were no windows: we're talking logs all around, and the Oregon coast which is under perpetual cloudcover.
Not only did they start fires in the dark, but often decided against burning down their precious candles, or using up valuable fuel, and just did their own mending, sharpening and other survival necessities in the darkness of that enclosure. They were not taught this in a survival training or SHTF cookout, this is how they learned to live.
So the most flighty ones now, the ones with the least amount of constitution, could be pressed into doing all of the sames things we do, and our pre-industrial ancestors did, if it came to that.
When you explain this to people in your own words, some will switch off the artificial minority thing and get with the program, hopefully even be more prepared and act more sane when next their power goes out. Others will become angry that their opiate, inspiration, just done dried up. There is fantasy and then there is reality. I refuse to make it about me in conversations with them. If they don't believe you, tell them to go ask a firearms instructor or a military survival trainer. They usually leave you alone after that, or become more human in their response, just like their ancestors, and maybe learn some things.
All these pseudo-clasifications for people are ridiculous, promulgated by and for the silly and ignorant.
Thanks.... I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Why not just say "yep, sure can."
Those who analyze, will realize what a dumb question it is, and those who can't will have their question answered.
Bob
I can understand wanting to come up with a smart ass remark though. Usually, it's best not to, but the temptation is always there, because I think that's a normal response to being degraded, and that's essentially what a person is doing if they're asking you how you eat or get dressed. Are they really asking how you do it without sight, or are they asking because they wonder how helpless you really are? Are they asking if the lights are on but nobody's home, or if the lights are just out?
I for one am angered by the constant ignorance of such people. It makes me wonder what we can really do to educate the public.
The thing is, they have to want to be educated. Old habits die hard, and ignorance is no exception. I think some people are just generally closed-minded, and any attempt to change their minds about something is seen as a threat, either to their security or their pride. I'd say that in most cases, though, even if the person never truly understands what blind people can do, they can at least be taught that basic things like eating and going to the bathroom are done the exact same way they do them.
It just blows my mind the things people think we can't do. I've come to the conclusion that they not only think all blind people are alike, but all disabled people are alike, so they get their disabilities scrambled together. So yeah, we have the same problems people in wheelchairs have or the hearing impaired or others have. We're just one more faceless nameless disabled person to them. LOL!
The reason the so-called education won't work is usually simple: People enjoy being ignorant, and love the horror stories of the hunchback idiot of Notre Damme, or the blind man who can't dress himself.
It helps them at the same time feel good about themselves and proliferate their own victim and entitlement mentalities. Burst their bubble and you've got yourself a crackhead with no crack.
You are probably not going to educate anyone in a short period of time.
Be careful of the smartass remarks.
I was once trying to cross one of those streets where you walk across half the street, wait for a break in the traffic and run across the other half. This guy took my arm and led me across the first half and while we waited he said "do you mind if I ask how you lost your sight?"
Being a smartass kid at the time, I replied "no, do you mind if I ask how you lost your manners?"
He dropped my arm and scooted across the street, leaving me with my fate in my own hands!
Bob
I recognize people need educating, but I'm also as skeptical as others here are about the whole subject. I hear a lot of talk that educating needs to happen but I see no game plan. You're not going to wise people up on the streets by answering one little question about one little aspect of things. So, how can you gather a bunch of people in a room or auditorium and convince them they should take an interest in the subject of blind people. How are you going to get a bunch of people who won't feel like a captive audience. In my own point of view, most folks do not even think about the blind or anyone else decidedly different from themselves unless they're directly confronted with one of us. Like Leo said, they prefer to remain ignorant so they can remain the center of their universe and they can pretend they represent all that's good and normal in the world. To them, blind people are there to be helped across a street or something like that, otherwise normal people just don't have anything in common with them, or maybe it's scary to get emotionally attached to a blind person because it's like getting attached to a cancer patient, and what will the neighbors think and what will my friends think and will God banish me to hell for this? OK, maybe I'm stretching some of that but I do it to make a point.
It just makes me so mad that we are seen as inferior. Who do people think they are?
I can really only speculate, but if they even ask themselves at all who they think they are, they might believe themselves to be normal, ordinary, unremarkable, whole, healthy, good human beings. The problem is, people have all these ideas of how people should be and how they should look and act and etc. It's not just the blind and the disabled who get looked down upon. Think of how people who are non-white are treated in the case of America, or people who look different, especially if they are ugly, or foreigners, or people who practice non-traditional religions or no religion at all. The big obstacle in the way is people are tied hand, foot, brain, mind and consciousness to the concept of normal. It is in my opinion an artificial concept, but the majority believes in it as much as they believe in night and day.
Blbobby I can actually understand completely why that guy acted the way he did. All he did was ask curiously how you lost your sight. It's a reasonable question. Your comment wasn't just a smart remark made in the spirit of fun, even if you yourself thought that's what it was. If I'd been a sighted person and someone did that to me I'd be just as offended as he apparently was. On the other hand if I was the blind person ad just didn't want to talk about it I'd just say I'd prefer not to talk about it.
Yes, it was rude. And I understand why we have such ignorance. That is society dumping it's trash on us.
I was in a produce store I frequent fairly regularly, and an employee was helping me out picking up vegetables, and he just out of the blue asks "so were you in an accident?" At first I thought I had a bruise on my arm or something, but he elaborated that he wanted to know if I lost my sight in an accident. I said no, but didn't elaborate, and was frankly a little taken aback. I wish I had told him that it was in a terrible chemical explision and I really don't want to talk about it...
Well that's better than asking did you lose your manners?
Anyone would be taken aback if somebody just up and asked a personal question straight out of the blue with no preamble. At least if they start out with "I'm curious about something" or "may I ask a personal question" you've got a few seconds to get defenses ready.
As for smart-aleck remarks, Yeah, best to avoid those, just because I think when people see us they get so overwhelmed with emotions that their ability to process and handle sarcasm is temporarily shut down. This also means you should not make up tall tales about any aspect of your life. They'll probably believe you.
Fair enough! :) It was definitely weird
People say the darnedest things. I had one lady from another country come up to me on the bus. She looked at me and said with complete amazement: "Iit's so wonderful that you are alive! In my country you might have been killed." I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea. The most disturbing part was she was completely serious.
OMG serious? WOW!
I once had a woman say, "What's wrong with your eyes!" All I could say was, "uh, I'm blind."
According to my parents, when I was about 3, we were in the store, and some lady came up to us and started going on and on about how sad it was that I was blind, about how I would never get the chance to be happy like all the other kids my age. well, I don't remember doing this, but apparently I turned my head in her general direction and said, "Lady, I'm blind, and just fine. thank you very much". Needless to say, that was the end of that little exchange. I don't think she was very happy that my parents were just laughing it up, though.
LOL. Reminds me of when my mom's neighbor assumed I wasn't good with my cane because I had no idea where the doors to the store were in relation to where we'd parked in the parking lot. I think she expected the cane to magically tell me where the doors were no matter where we parked. Then of course when se was called out on it she tried to backpeddle and say she just said I didn't look comfortable with it when boh my mom and I remember what she actually said.
We don't have voice activated canes. "Cane, find the door." "wait, slow down, wait." Crr'r'r'r'r'rash!
Exactly. And if we did we'd look even weirder than we already do in the eyes of a lot of sighted folks even when we're just walking along minding our own business.
People are going to be very disappointed when they discover what a cane is made of. No secret super-technology, no magic spells, no nothing, just a hollow aluminum or graphite tube with elastic cords in it and a golf grip.
As someone sighted allow me to apologize for the idiotic and stupid sighted people.
I will admit I had a lot of ignorance concerning the blind so I did a lot reading and asked a few people here as well as some friends who are blind and have learned quite a bit.
@Dracula and anyone else that's sighted on here, I seriously hope you are never reverse-discriminated against because you are sighted. I find that situation sad and appalling. I would never hold all sighted people responsible for the bad behavior of a few: one of the major problems I have had with minority groups over the years. I say this as one of many on here who feel this way, I'm sure.
I've never seen reverse-descrimination against the sighted, but I'm sure it happens.
I saw it before, some blind people do discruminate sighted people, or stereotype them just because they in some sort of different world then the blind people. I personally think that is wrong. you really need to be in two world to have the best of thing.
Some people thinks they can survive only by talking to the blind people, dating the blind people, and doing the way blind people do things. Well, the world are more than the blind community itself.
Well said indeed!
I hate being asked those kinds of questions. It happens far more often than it should, and unfortunately I usually don't have a wisecrack ready.
With me it's not so much the questions themselves but the sense I get behind them. And while I wholeehartedly recommend a good, smart ass comment delivered in as good-humored a tone as I can manage, I also recognize when they are and aren't appropriate.
It's all about context, and the tone in which the question is asked. If someone is just stupid, it shows in their tone. If it's meant to be malicious, that comes through also. It's the ones who ask their questions because they want to take advantage of us that deserve the smart ass remarks, while the stupid ones just deserve our pity, cause if they're stupid enough to ask things like if my cane has magnets in it to identify where curbs are (yes, that actually happened to me once), they won't get a punch line anyway.
I really don't have to think about the issue of questions much because in the past few years, I just don't get random people walking up to me or my wife or both of us to ask some burning question of theirs. Either people aren't so curious or they have manners or they're too shy. Sometimes I wonder if two blind people together is just intimidating for folks, or maybe we look unapproachable, or we generate massive don't-fuck-with-us vibes, I really can only speculate.
I've encountered people that were scared I was going to whip the shit out of them with my cane if they dared fuck with me. Lol.
Really? I always thought the cane was seen as a sign of vulnerability. People have told me that if you have a dog you're less likely to get attacked. On the other hand, the dog isn't trained to attack, which a lot of people don't seem to get. But I was always under the impression that if you were getting mugged or something, the first thing your attacker would do is do everything in their power to get that cane out of your hand precisely so it couldn't be used as a weapon.
I don't know how much truth there is to what people say about guide dog users walking more confidently either. I know some people bang everything they come into contact with as if their life depends on it with the cane, and of course that's going to call unwanted attention. Even 2-point touch draws more attention than constant contact which is why I don't use it. I also don't know how much truth there is to people walking faster when they have a dog either. I've seen several people move like turtles with their dogs, and several fast cane travelers, myself included.
it all comes down to what people have worked with most. i've heard of turtle cane users and fast dog users too, then there's turtle people in general dog or no dog. as for if we're vulnerable with a cane or not all depends on how that person reacts. A can can indeed be a weapon if used right.
Indeed it can, and I dare say it is what people deserve. Ignorance makes my blood boil.
In terms of the dog, while guide dogs are not trained to attack, would an attacker wish to take that chance? I doubt it.
some people will, though. and then they'll sue if the dog so much as tries to nip at them. Yes, I've seen it happen before.
I had some kid in a mall once ask me if I could use the cane like a club. I believe some people think we're psycho since they're deathly afraid of offending us. It's like, OK, if you offend me, tell me what exactly you think I'll do to you.
Here's my take on so-called independence, though advocates may not like it:
If the blind person in question is paying their own bills, attending to their responsibilities and meeting their obligations, who cares how they get it done? Who cares?
I personally don't like living where I can't walk to the store, and some blind advocate may boo hoo that I'm somehow irresponsible.
But I have a job to do, and that involves seeing to it my daughter gets the very best education I can get her. Being in this area that means I put that on the shelf, and we rely on the car, until she finishes up.
If somebody relies on GPS, an audio walk signal, a dog, a cane or whatever, I could care less. I respect that person, if they are taking care of all their responsibilities. On the other hand, if someone is being paid for by someone else, doesn't take care of their own load, and they're out on the proverbial rag about somebody's independence or suggested lack thereof, I could care less.
Do I preboard planes? Absolutely if I'm on a business trip and have to get someplace. After all, I've got a job to do, and last time I checked, no employer ever paid me for so-called independence skills, the tax man only is after a big bite outa the wallet, and the fam has its own needs. If you're gettin' 'er done, get 'er done and skip the rest. And this coming from someone who, growing up, could often be severely punished for appearing blind or similar types of things. I know some very successful people that use dogs, and the audible walk signals on a very busy corner have saved me a lot of time when needing to get here and there.
Can't put it better myself Lio. :)
Nor can I. After all, there are plenty of sighted people whose methods of doing things wouldn't be approved by others, and there are also blind people who could kick some sighted people's asses when it comes to independence, so this whole aditude that blind people must do *everything* on their own is really invalid, until everyone else is required to do the same.
Some people are raised to be ashamed of being dependent or make mistakes. There is a philosophy that says that a blind person must be better at everything than a sighted person to just get their foot in the door. I think it's a steaming load of bullshit myself, because you can't use independence as a battering ram against ignorance. Some folks in the world are so pigheaded that no matter how hard you try and impress them, you're just a blind person to them with all the accompanying misconceptions. So, might as well just do things the way that works for you and to hell with what anyone else thinks. Besides, blind people that judge your independence or lack thereof are probably just insecure about their own skills but would rather express that by putting others down than actually trying to do some good.
I have seen that phelosophy myself and it is pure hogwash.
Preach it Leo,
exactly right.
I use a guide dog and a gps when I walk places, and I'll do whatever I can to get my job, whatever that may be, done.
Damn right.
Yes the cane is a nice weapon, smile!!!! it can be used to defend yourself, however, I so far have not had to use it. I pray I do not, not sure what my temper would cause me to do to a person.
Same here. I have a folding cane which could really cause damage.
So do I, a graphite one. I've never had to use it either, and in any case I always carry one of those personal alarms that I'd use as a first option if a situation felt dangerous. For anyone who doesn't know what those are, it's a device about the size of a pager, wich clips onto a belt. In fact I almost always wear a belt just so I can keep it handy. But these things usually have either a btton or a pin for the trigger. Mine happens to be the latter, so I'd pull te pin to set off the alarm. And mine is incredibly loud and high-pitched. The only problem with mine is that it has a little cord for you to pull on (a kind of loop actually), and it used to catch on everything, meaning that I could set it off by accident if I wasn't careful, which did happen on a very few occasions before I figured out a workable solution. But I got the thing when I started taking te buses in Portland, Oregon on a regular basis. It was a gift from a neighbor acctually, who did actually have to use one once and swore by them afterwards and started giving them out to all the friends she knew.
If I had known about this, I would have been fighting crime as a child. lol!
Oh I wouldn't want to try tjat, but those alarms are good for summoning help and I'm told they can be quite effective at disorienting a would-be attacker. You just have to try not to be disoriented yourself when the siren goes off. But some have a built-in light you can use ust when someoneneeds a little more light. So they become multipurpose items.
The blind seem to have this great need for weapons and alarms and such. At least the ones on this site do.
I've known lots of sighted folks who carry them just to be safe.
Well, better safe than sorry I guess
That's precisely the point. And while I have fired guns on many occasions as a blind person I'd still feel more comfortable with the body alarm since here's o possibility of accidentall hurting yourself te way there would be with a knife or gun if handled improperly.
Ya my own family does to me and says those things to me about how can I do those things with my daughter.
I stoppered going over there cause I did not want to here that from them any more.
It gets tiring after a while herring that.
People just think that you are basically a on body and that you can't do things for yourself.'that drives me crazy and I do like that at all.
It comes down to good old ignorance.
The other advantage to the personal alarms is that there can't possibly be any trial about whether or not your actions were in self-defence, though i wouldn't trust my life to the device, either.
Nor would I.